bloomberg is an idiot - ban 44oz sodas

[VTA]

my "killer cloud" comment was in response to doomsday saying this, "Fact is if I choose to drink a large drink that is my business not yours not anyone.

I make my own choices this is part of being free people to make your own choices and to live with the consequences good or bad of the choices you made."

I then went on to say it is the equivalent of, "A factory a mile away from town produces a nice smell that can be smelled around the town. Unfortunately, the entire town has been told the smell they are smelling contains a deadly chemical that will most likely kill them within 20 years. Here is the towns response, "WE DON'T CARE!!! IT SMELLS GOOD!!! YOU CAN'T TAKE OUR FREEDOM AWAY!!!! IF IT KILLS US SO WHAT!!!!! I DON'T WANT ANYONE TELLING ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN'T SMELL!!!!!!!!"

It's not a perfect analogy but I don't think it's as far off as it was made out to be. There is just something fundamentally wrong with that argument. I respect that side of the issue but I think the argument is poor from some people, that being an example.

The thing with this analogy is that it omits what is at the core of our healthcare argument: who is to shoulder the consequences.

Insurance prices are up because there are laws that prohibit hospitals from turning out patients who have no insurance or means to pay, so through higher costs we pay anyway. So the argument goes nothing really changes under mandated healthcare. This is not true.

When you have a central body providing for your needs, it's only natural that that body will turn it's attention to how you are using those needs. When it deems your actions detrimental and using up more resources than that body wishes to pay, it starts down that awful path of dictating lifestyles. From the get-go no and it sounds unreasonable, but its best to realize what sounds far-fetched is most likely what you are vulnerable to.

The other problem in our healthcare system is that it is now primarily a for-profit business. The biggest industry in the U.S. is healthcare. If business is booming, people are not brimming with health. When a things success is predicated on ill-health, how much do you think a healthy population is truly valued?

Yes, we may pay regardless, but we pay based on the market not a centralized legislation of law makers and politicians.

Take into great account what our government is now made up of. Prostitutes who no longer hide that they are available to the highest bidder. Obama, Romney, no difference what so ever. Link up the model of transforming our healthcare system to the systematic forcing down of charitable associations and driving up insurance rates, it sounds suspiciously like eliminating your competition and why shouldn't it? If you take into consideration the entire scope of observing our 'politicians' with all the warts, lies and contradictions we wink at, because we'd rather not think of the alternative, does it really seem wise to hand these people the keys to our lives?

There are better ways to handle this mess and it isn't taking the first well-worded option from a highly trained suit of clothes.

[trickblue]

If you want some more center-left or hard left, I know a few good ones that will discuss things intelligently...

Center-Left: joseephus, jterrell, wileedog, SultanOfSix (he is Muslim and I learned a lot from him)
Left: silverbear, Big Dakota, arglebargle, CowboyDan, Wheat (Redskins fan but a good guy)
Hard Left: Sasquatch, Superpunk, jwitten82

Danny White would be a good one to invite as well as ScipioCowboy...

[JBond]

If you want some more center-left or hard left, I know a few good ones that will discuss things intelligently...

Center-Left: joseephus, jterrell, wileedog, SultanOfSix (he is Muslim and I learned a lot from him)
Left: silverbear, Big Dakota, arglebargle, CowboyDan, Wheat (Redskins fan but a good guy)
Hard Left: Sasquatch, Superpunk, jwitten82

Danny White would be a good one to invite as well as ScipioCowboy...

Invite them. The more the merrier. Sultun is an interesting guy. I think Scripio has been here before. I have little use for superpunk. I would like to chat with Danny. He always has some good inside info.

[a_minimalist]

The thing with this analogy is that it omits what is at the core of our healthcare argument: who is to shoulder the consequences.

Insurance prices are up because there are laws that prohibit hospitals from turning out patients who have no insurance or means to pay, so through higher costs we pay anyway. So the argument goes nothing really changes under mandated healthcare. This is not true.

When you have a central body providing for your needs, it's only natural that that body will turn it's attention to how you are using those needs. When it deems your actions detrimental and using up more resources than that body wishes to pay, it starts down that awful path of dictating lifestyles. From the get-go no and it sounds unreasonable, but its best to realize what sounds far-fetched is most likely what you are vulnerable to.

The other problem in our healthcare system is that it is now primarily a for-profit business. The biggest industry in the U.S. is healthcare. If business is booming, people are not brimming with health. When a things success is predicated on ill-health, how much do you think a healthy population is truly valued?

Yes, we may pay regardless, but we pay based on the market not a centralized legislation of law makers and politicians.

Take into great account what our government is now made up of. Prostitutes who no longer hide that they are available to the highest bidder. Obama, Romney, no difference what so ever. Link up the model of transforming our healthcare system to the systematic forcing down of charitable associations and driving up insurance rates, it sounds suspiciously like eliminating your competition and why shouldn't it? If you take into consideration the entire scope of observing our 'politicians' with all the warts, lies and contradictions we wink at, because we'd rather not think of the alternative, does it really seem wise to hand these people the keys to our lives?

There are better ways to handle this mess and it isn't taking the first well-worded option from a highly trained suit of clothes.

I understand and agree with any sort of trepidation when government is involved. For the most part politicians are a slimy bunch. But, I said on CZ that we shouldn't fear making change because of our fear of government. Handing the government our keys to the car is a scary idea. I don't think we should ever do that. However, handing them the keys when we are drunk is okay. We are a self-governing group and if we can't try and trust government--it takes blind faith, naiveté, stupidity, whatever you want to call it--to try and do what is in our best interest no one will and we will continue to decline.

I hate to make this comparison but if you have a special needs child sometimes you can't let them make certain decisions because they just won't make the right one and will continue to harm themselves. There are a large amount of "special needs children" in America right now. We are at a tipping point and need to make some drastic changes. We will continue to fall behind if good decisions aren't made by people who can't grasp what is best for them.

We need a strong productive country that is capable of creating goods, selling goods, being healthy, producing worthwhile citizens, prospering, and most importantly, be better and more powerful than any other country. Currently, we are failing. Is it the governments job to tell us what to do? No, but at times they can help when people who aren't intelligent enough to make a change are holding us back. The government has done some good things. Right now, it is a mess but the people who are running things should be held accountable and things should be expected from them at all times, even if nothing is being done.

You'd be surprised how powerful ideas and conversation among everyday people can be. It spreads and things can happen.

[Supply Sider]

Invite them. The more the merrier. Sultun is an interesting guy. I think Scripio has been here before. I have little use for superpunk. I would like to chat with Danny. He always has some good inside info.

And he's here now.

[trickblue]

Welcome to the Gatesville Flash...

[ThaBigP]

B...b...but! They pinky-swore they were just going to hide the chocolate milk! They PINKY-SWORE!!! They lied to me! I feel so betrayed...

</feigning shock>

On a completely unrelated note, it's time for the quote of the day *crowd cheers*

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

-George Washington

[a_minimalist]

B...b...but! They pinky-swore they were just going to hide the chocolate milk! They PINKY-SWORE!!! They lied to me! I feel so betrayed...

</feigning shock>

On a completely unrelated note, it's time for the quote of the day *crowd cheers*

I love your sig. I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand.

[VTA]

I understand and agree with any sort of trepidation when government is involved. For the most part politicians are a slimy bunch. But, I said on CZ that we shouldn't fear making change because of our fear of government. Handing the government our keys to the car is a scary idea. I don't think we should ever do that. However, handing them the keys when we are drunk is okay. We are a self-governing group and if we can't try and trust government--it takes blind faith, naiveté, stupidity, whatever you want to call it--to try and do what is in our best interest no one will and we will continue to decline.

I hate to make this comparison but if you have a special needs child sometimes you can't let them make certain decisions because they just won't make the right one and will continue to harm themselves. There are a large amount of "special needs children" in America right now. We are at a tipping point and need to make some drastic changes. We will continue to fall behind if good decisions aren't made by people who can't grasp what is best for them.

We need a strong productive country that is capable of creating goods, selling goods, being healthy, producing worthwhile citizens, prospering, and most importantly, be better and more powerful than any other country. Currently, we are failing. Is it the governments job to tell us what to do? No, but at times they can help when people who aren't intelligent enough to make a change are holding us back. The government has done some good things. Right now, it is a mess but the people who are running things should be held accountable and things should be expected from them at all times, even if nothing is being done.

You'd be surprised how powerful ideas and conversation among everyday people can be. It spreads and things can happen.

I'm sorry brother, I'm going to have to refute your analogy. :D


Mostly because of this: a special needs child did not elect/select his or her parents. if they did, imagine what they would have if they did? Also that relationship is primarily based on love, while our government isn't.


The special needs population of this nation has certainly elected it's own special needs government, which is why we got what we got: incompetent crooks who got there by appealing to tertiary matters while ignoring the general welfare. Let's not trust them to fill our needs as they are just as 'special' as we are.


Your last sentence is exactly what's at the core of the argument and the much better approach to the issue. The problem is philosophical and not economic and definitely not political. It would be better to discuss if it's moral to have a healthcare system that is a business first. Is it right that our health is commodity? If not what do we who have the most to lose do about it?


I'm hesitant to say what 'people need to do', because I know I don't have all the answers, but I do think if we have all of our moral ducks in a row all else would follow and I would dogmatically say where we should start is by not allowing bureaucracy to enter into it.

[iceberg]

If you want some more center-left or hard left, I know a few good ones that will discuss things intelligently...

Center-Left: joseephus, jterrell, wileedog, SultanOfSix (he is Muslim and I learned a lot from him)
Left: silverbear, Big Dakota, arglebargle, CowboyDan, Wheat (Redskins fan but a good guy)
Hard Left: Sasquatch, Superpunk, jwitten82

Danny White would be a good one to invite as well as ScipioCowboy...

all are welcome outside superpunk.

he'll just put up a gay pic as if we should care and scream he's misunderstood.

pass.