FYI - my next story is revelation 12

[iceberg]

shit, i had one hell of a rant going on and i lost it.

i'll just put back what i was saying in the end. when i was younger, i used to love the contradiction i could pull out of a statement like "if God can do everything, can he make a rock so big even he can't lift it?"

he either can't make the rock or he can't lift it. both of which kill the overall power of God.

maybe not.

man is made in Gods image and mankind does evolve. so it would stand to reason God would also.

can He make the rock NOW?

no. but he can figure out how to do it and get it done then he can figure out how to lift it.

in 1983 no one knew what a txt msg was. now we live online. social evolution is quick.

things can change quickly.

but the point is mankind has always figured out how to do what we previously couldn't. the point isn't that God can't do it on demand, the point is he can.

in time.

as for the story itself, names to me are very important. the name of the angel coming at our "hero" is samuel.

the name of our angel is micheal. spelled like that.

not even sure satan would come into play until the end.

do all angels want to "go home"?
how did the fight start? which "named" angel did it? was it satan or is that how we refer to that fallen angel?

the hero in this one isn't likely to be a historical figure. but how i present him is what makes him a valid historical representation.

[iceberg]

Lazy heathen indeed!

Those are hard core bible quotes VTA - King James version?

and i'd appreciate NOT getting quotes from the bible but interpretations of the quote. quote it for sure, then tell me what you think it means.

[VTA]

That statement isn't the philosophical paradox many wish it to be. It's fallacious. God isn't measured by weight and mass, we are so our minds are limited in our understanding. God can't sin and he can't lie, being unable to do these things isn't because he is flawed, it's because he is not flawed. An absence of darkness in his presence isn't a lack on his part. Would anyone call Einstein limited among men because he couldn't unlearn and be ignorant?


Being made in God's image refers to a triune nature of body, soul and spirit, capable of moral thinking. Our physical presence in time necessitates our growth (evolution) and aging. God doesn't evolve, he is infinite not created, existing outside of time and stands far above his creation. If we evolve it's to be more like him. From basic troglodyte to closer spiritual semblance in understanding. It's why Jesus had to come when he did; man was not fit or conditioned to understand what he was and what his arrival meant.


Our knowledge increase isn't a profitable evolution, it's a condition that generally undoes us, as we live in an illusion of self-reliance, where we think we create our own environment and have compete control. We're impressed with ourselves and ability to learn, instead of realizing education is a gift from God. God never counseled man in matters of physics or biology, because he ingrained the ability within man to learn as he went along. Instead of being thankful, we use it as a validation of our own self image and become blasphemous. It's why the bible is entirely focused on counseling behavior. All this technology and we still treat each other like shit. We still engage in concepts of 'greater than' and lesser than, while God looks down and observes us walking all on the same ground.


We've anthropomorphized God with human attributes instead of realizing we are created beings given attributes like him. All the better to judge Him. Or so we think.


Michael is the name of the arch angle, who's name means One Who Is Like God. The closest to God and the one who boots satan out of heaven.


I guess angels are home except for the fallen, who don't want to go to their home. When Jesus met the possessed man, they pleaded he not send them back to the pit, but into a herd of pigs, so they sure don't want to go their home. If they want to return to heaven or be back in God presence, I imagine having God's grace fully departed from them the concept is moot and they engage in evil instead of thoughts of introspective regret.


As noted in the post with the quotes, pride started the fight. The need to be worshipped as God the created being trying to be equal with God.

[Cajuncowboy]

I love this. When I have some time I will break it down and give you my interpretation.

[Jemini]

Yes, the old English gives it away. Well done : )

[Jemini]

Berg how about you check out some or all of the references below, read the book of Revelation, and form your own interpretation in the movie script you are trying to write?

Website:
http://bible.org/seriespage/angelic-conflict-rev-121-17

E-Books:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...lation&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=uelldBpY3HEC&source=gbs_navlinks_s

http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/adela.pdf

The Revelation of John: A historical interpretation - this is a free e-book off of Google Books (try this first)
http://books.google.com/books?id=BfM2AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+R evelation+of+John.+A+Historical+Interpretation+by+ Shirley+Jackson+Case&source=bl&ots=TCE7ZjEsKm&sig= I2aUd2P03EX3m4TVL-Ril3mdd7E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YosYUO6yI4i09QTn8YHgDQ&ved =0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Revelation%20of%20J ohn.%20A%20Historical%20Interpretation%20by%20Shir ley%20Jackson%20Case&f=false


Physical books:
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-Mac...+of+revelation

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...lation&f=false

I tried to find as objective resources as possible but I still caution to BE MINDFUL of the conspiracy theories floating around as you research this, especially with the book of Revelation. Always question your sources! When I get more time, I will poke around a bit more to see if I can find more scholarly works on Revelations.

[JBond]

I have extensive notes on Revelation. It is 85 pages. Chapter 12 starts on page 53. I would like to send it to you. Most of the info is from the King James and MacArthur Bibles. Feel free to use anything you find interesting. If anyone else is interested, please let me know. I just need a way to get it to you. Email, snail mail, whatever.

Please ignore typos, misspellings etc. These were the notes I used at bible study. My father and I put hundreds of hours into this. If you have questions, let me know.

[VTA]

So what's dong with this ice? Was anything in here of any help?

[iceberg]

i was out of town for a wedding and not able to get much back into this.

i guess i'm looking for one of the "lesser known" angels and i used micheal cause my middle name is michael but it's spelled wrong on my birth cert as micheal.

i'll read through these and do some research and stick the thread so we can keep pushing this cause i love the idea.

for now, i may put my movie "renegade" out there piece by piece to get the party started cause i've already got it done. finished it in '88 or so and found an agent and shortly after that there was a "renegade" TV show (lornezo lamas i believe) which was pretty close to my idea but not "close enough". it was so bad i didn't even get into it.

[iceberg]

Michael is the name of the arch angle, who's name means One Who Is Like God. The closest to God and the one who boots satan out of heaven.


I guess angels are home except for the fallen, who don't want to go to their home. When Jesus met the possessed man, they pleaded he not send them back to the pit, but into a herd of pigs, so they sure don't want to go their home. If they want to return to heaven or be back in God presence, I imagine having God's grace fully departed from them the concept is moot and they engage in evil instead of thoughts of introspective regret.

As noted in the post with the quotes, pride started the fight. The need to be worshipped as God the created being trying to be equal with God.

ok, this is where my mind just goes "what the hell did you just say".

"they pleaded he not send them back to the pit, but into a herd of pigs, so they sure don't want to go their home."

is "the pit" hell and in a herd of pigs? well the pigs should run along shortly so i don't get it. i don't always get what is being said when they get all metaphorical.

so i tend to get lost and need a translator.