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JBond
12-28-2011, 01:29 PM
President Obama will ask this week for a $1.2 trillion raise in the federal borrowing limit, according to a Treasury Department official.
The action would raise the country’s debt ceiling to $16.4 trillion from $15.2 trillion. News of Obama’s request was first reported by Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/27/us-usa-treasury-debt-idUSTRE7BQ0KU20111227).

Lest the words “debt ceiling” spark panic over the possibility of another showdown with Congress that could bring the nation to the brink of default, fear not. The August (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112publ25/pdf/PLAW-112publ25.pdf) debt deal provides for a $1.2 trillion increase that can be blocked only if Congress passes a “resolution of disapproval.”

If such a resolution were to pass, it would likely be vetoed by Obama. And any attempt by Congress to override the veto would require a two-thirds supermajority in each chamber.

On top of that, there’s the matter of timing. The August debt ceiling legislation states that any resolution of disapproval must make its way through Congress within 15 days of the president’s request.

If Obama announces his position this week, Congress would have to vote on a disapproval resolution by Jan. 14 at the latest.

But the House isn’t scheduled to return (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/2012-house-calendar-keeps-gop-two-weeks-on-one-week-off-plan/2011/10/27/gIQAfhB8LM_blog.html) to the Capitol until Jan. 17, and the Senate doesn’t return until Jan. 23 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/senate-releases-outline-of-2012-calendar/2011/11/01/gIQALVjAdM_blog.html). Aides to leadership in both chambers did not immediately respond to a request for comment on whether any disapproval votes are planned.


Six trillion dollars in new debt over 3 years. WTF? Then add up the other secret debt and crap investments we owe via the Fed which is estimated between $38 to $60 trillion dollars. Screw it. Maybe I will vote for the nut job, Ron Paul. There is no doubt in my mind he is a crazy SOB, but his domestic fiscal policy appears to be sound. There are days I feel like we need to start with a clean slate in DC. I have never been in favor of term limits for congress, but I am beginning to change my mind. We need to step off the crazy train. Something must change. It will one way or another. I hope and pray the self absorbed assholes in DC figure it out before it is to late. We can still correct our course, but it will be painful and appear cruel to many, but if we don't that temporary pain will turn into something much worse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/obama-to-ask-for-increase-in-debt-ceiling/2011/12/27/gIQApypjKP_blog.html

iceberg
12-28-2011, 02:03 PM
if i understood obama correctly, he was spending money to get us out of debt, right?

before i go on, wasn't that the plan?

JBond
12-28-2011, 02:08 PM
Got to spend money to make money. :slaphead:

He also believes unemployment/welfare stimulates the economy.

Ice...I am becoming very concerned about the election. Four more years of Obama may well finish off the America we grew up in and love.

iceberg
12-28-2011, 02:11 PM
Got to spend money to make money. :slaphead:

He also believes unemployment/welfare stimulates the economy.

Ice...I am becoming very concerned about the election. Four more years of Obama may well finish off the America we grew up in and love.

it's not just the president. we've been very complacent with our own lives for awhile and as life got easier, we got weaker as a people.

imagine what it took to "go west" and survive. boil my water??? just go buy a few gallons off the truck!!! i'm not sure todays american would have survived yesterdays america.

JBond
12-28-2011, 02:36 PM
Agree 100%. Some of my friend laugh at some of the precautions I have taken regarding food, water, and weapons. I am not some nut job survivalist, but it never hurts to be prepared.

Many days when driving across my great state of Kansas, I think of the settlers and I am amazed at what they overcame. We have become soft and complacent. Imagine what would happen to our country if we had one or two weeks of no electricity. We think we are an evolved culture as a result of our creature comforts. We are eating our cake, happy as can be. We are two weeks away from being in the 1800's

iceberg
12-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Agree 100%. Some of my friend laugh at some of the precautions I have taken regarding food, water, and weapons. I am not some nut job survivalist, but it never hurts to be prepared.

Many days when driving across my great state of Kansas, I think of the settlers and I am amazed at what they overcame. We have become soft and complacent. Imagine what would happen to our country if we had one or two weeks of no electricity. We think we are an evolved culture as a result of our creature comforts. We are eating our cake, happy as can be. We are two weeks away from being in the 1800's

you're a fool if you don't see *something* coming.

jericho where major cities go and small towns survive? doubt it. but if that's the case i'm in dallas and me and my guns won't matter much.
emp pulse and suddenly i can't talk to you guys? possible.

but with the economy the way it is and "religious" battles going on - something is coming and it won't be pretty. the more prepared you are to simply take care of yourself the more you're likely to have to. can you imagine people trying to be "entitled" if there's simply nothing to give them?

JBond
12-28-2011, 03:06 PM
The deadly riots around the world should serve as a wake up call. When you take away "free stuff" from people they get a bit cranky. When our government is forced to make cuts over the next decade, it will lead to riots. There is no doubt. Civil unrest is coming. How it is managed early will be critical to the outcome. The sad thing is, it was all avoidable.

Cassie
12-28-2011, 05:25 PM
It seems to me it was predictable but not very much avoidable, at least not lately. The tendency was to enlarge the entitlement programs, not to reduce them, make popular decisions, elect presidents that will make those popular decisions, etc, etc, etc. It went on for decades, Obama just took it to another level.

JBond
12-28-2011, 06:43 PM
Hi Cassie. The longer we put off the necessary reforms, the more painful it will be. There will not be a nice soft landing for any politicians with enough guts to do what is needed. They will become pariahs, but hopefully there are enough good people left to make the corrections.

You are right about this going on for decades on both sides. I disliked Bush's domestic policies for the same reasons I dislike Obama's. They are one and the same, just to different degrees.

Cassie
12-28-2011, 07:57 PM
My point is that politicians are not the problem, they are just a reflection of the society. I completely agree that the longer we wait the more painful it will be and that it won't be pretty anyway. But we shouldn't wait for a proper politician to come and fix things

iceberg
12-28-2011, 08:25 PM
My point is that politicians are not the problem, they are just a reflection of the society. I completely agree that the longer we wait the more painful it will be and that it won't be pretty anyway. But we shouldn't wait for a proper politician to come and fix things

i'm pretty sure i agree with you. politicians just seem to give people what they think they want, not what we need. well except for obama who is overhauling what we eat on a daily basis. : ) it's our own "needs" that spur their own behavior.

Cassie
12-28-2011, 08:34 PM
i'm pretty sure i agree with you. politicians just seem to give people what they think they want, not what we need. well except for obama who is overhauling what we eat on a daily basis. : ) it's our own "needs" that spur their own behavior.

Obama is also our product. Bill Clinton almost lost an office for ... just a blue dress of Monika Levinsky. Obama consistently gets away with much bigger issues. And the fact that he gets away and no one even tries to stop his reign is on our conscious.

VTA
12-28-2011, 08:54 PM
Obama is also our product. Bill Clinton almost lost an office for ... just a blue dress of Monika Levinsky. Obama consistently gets away with much bigger issues. And the fact that he gets away and no one even tries to stop his reign is on our conscious.

I'm not too sure what we can do at this point. 'We the people' have completely lost control of this country and it's been that way for quite some time. It may have started with winking at perceivably 'smaller' transgressions against our trust, but once you start, it's hard to stop. We're a great culture for excusing bad behavior though comparative thinking. We've also been quite happy to allow certain intrusions into our independence via questionable motives for our safety. Smoking, seat belts, and the incoming food restrictions, you name it. Sure it makes sense to enact good judgement in your life, but it doesn't make sense to allow strangers to take the helm of your life in that way.

Not to mention any simple language, such as trying to 'stop his reign' can now be construed as threatening language and see the utterer of such a phrase facing something that our wonderful government just passed a few weeks ago: detention on grounds of perception,without formal charge. Indefinitely.

But Apple's stock is soaring! We love pieces of plastic shit more than we love our freedom. ( <------ All right, that's an impromptu anger-impelled rant. Pardon me. :) )

ThaBigP
12-28-2011, 09:53 PM
Spooky possibilities, unfortunately backed by history ... and math.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmYI_4XCbM&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQCCDttLhA4&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVcyM2Z4Ego&feature=relmfu